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Why do we continue to ignore China's rise? Arrogance
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skipper

03/25/2012, 08:04:56




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Martin Jacques, author of a bestseller on China, asks why the west continues to approach the rise of the new global powerhouse with a closed mind. We obsess over details of the race for the White House, yet give scant regard to the battle to replace China's current leadership. If we fail to pay heed to the political and economic shift of gravity, we will be sidelined by history

History is passing our country and our continent by. Once we were the centre of the world, the place from where power, ideas and the future emanated. If we drew a map of the world, Europe was at its centre. That was how it was for 200 years. No more. The world is tilting on its axis in even more dramatic style than when Europe was on the rise. We are witnessing the greatest changes the world has seen for more than two centuries. We are barely aware of the fact. And therein lies the problem.


I vividly recall when the first edition of my book When China Rules the World was published almost three years ago. At the many talks I gave, I showed a Goldman Sachs chart that projected that the Chinese economy would overtake the US economy in size in 2027. Invariably someone would point out this was only a projection, that the future was never an extrapolation of the past, that it was most unlikely the forecast would come to pass and certainly not in this time frame. No one suggested that the projection underestimated the date, even though the western financial crisis was already almost a year old.

The latest Economist projection suggests China will overtake America in 2018. So why are we – and Europe – so far behind the curve? Why do we insist on living in a world that was rather than is? Why are we so out of touch with both the speed and import of China's rise?

Our ascendancy of the past two centuries – first Europe and then the US – has bred a western-centric mentality: the west is the fount of all wisdom. We think of ourselves as open-minded but our sense of superiority has closed our minds. We never entertained the idea that China could surpass the US. Backward, lacking democracy, bereft of Enlightenment principles, the product of a very different history, it was not western. So how could it? We were the universal model that everyone else had to embrace to succeed. The only form of modernisation that worked was westernisation. China would inevitably fail: the project was unsustainable. By insisting on seeing China through a western prism, we refused to understand China in its own terms. Our arrogance bred ignorance: we were not even curious.

China is, indeed, in so many ways, not like the west. It is not even primarily a nation state but a civilisation state. Whereas the west has primarily been shaped by its experience of nation, China has been moulded by its sense of civilisation. This helps to explain why the Chinese place such a huge emphasis on unity and stability, their reverence for the state and their embrace of ideas such as "one country, two systems" in Hong Kong. Similarly, unlike Europe, China never sought to acquire overseas colonies but established a tribute system in east Asia. The Chinese state bears a fundamentally different relationship to society compared with any western state. The state is seen as an intimate, as a member of the family, rather than, as in western discourse, a problem, a threat, or even the enemy. For the Chinese, the state is the embodiment of its civilisation: as such, it could not be more important, it lies at the heart of the Chinese pysche.

It is impossible to understand or make sense of China through a western prism. As China becomes a great power and, over the next two decades, steadily usurps America as the dominant global power, we will no longer have any alternative but to abandon our western parochialism and seek to understand China on its own terms. But the shift in mindset that faces us is colossal.

What does it mean to be a civilisation state? What was the tributary system and how will it shape China's future behaviour? Why is China's idea and experience of race so different from ours? Just as every non-western country was compelled during the 19th and 20th centuries to understand the west in its own terms, it is now our turn to make sense of a country so different from our own.

It will be a Herculean task: we always look west, hardly ever east. When Bo Xilai, a leading contender for one of China's top positions, was dismissed more than a week ago, it received little attention in our media even though it was the most important event of its kind for more than two decades. Compare, if you will, the attention, devoted by the British media – notably the BBC and quality newspapers – to the Republican primaries with that given to China in the build-up to the Communist party congress in November, when President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao will be replaced by Xi Jinping and Li Keqiang. The latter is of far greater consequence yet the coverage is paltry in comparison.

We have an enormous China deficit that urgently needs addressing. It is replicated throughout our culture; there has been much talk of promoting Mandarin in our schools and yet, in both the state and private sectors, pitifully few offer it as a serious option. Our economy exhibits the same morbid symptoms: Britain exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India, Russia and Brazil combined. Unless we address these questions, we face the prospect of being sidelined by history.

China's remarkable economic growth started in 1978, but as its economy was then only a 20th the size of America's, its global impact was minuscule. By the turn of the century, however, after more than two decades of double-digit growth, the Chinese economy was more like a quarter of the size of America's, with the consequence that its global effect was of an entirely different order. The story, moreover, was no longer simply about China because by then its rise had begun to transform the world. Only with the financial crisis in 2008, however, did the west finally begin to wake up to the implications.

Although countless commentators speak lazily of the global financial crisis, this is a misnomer. A visit to Beijing will soon dispel the illusion. The place is brimming with energy, elan, confidence and brio. While the west is mired in austerity and stagnation, with a psychology to match, China is riding an extraordinary wave of optimism. In 2010, according to a Pew poll, 91% of Chinese felt good about their country's economy compared with 24% in the US and 20% in Britain. While most western economies are still smaller than they were before 2008, the Chinese economy has been growing in the region of 9-10% a year. That is why it will overtake the US almost a decade earlier than previously predicted.

2008 ushered in a new era, the beginning of a Chinese world economic order. Until recently the US largely shaped globalisation but now China is increasingly assuming that role. Its most dramatic expression is trade. China will shortly become the world's largest trading nation. It imports huge amounts of natural resources and exports a massive volume of manufactured goods: in 2011, it overtook the US to become the world's largest producer of manufactured goods, a position America had previously held for 110 years. In 1990, there was hardly a country in the world for which China was its chief trading partner. By 2000, there were a few, but nearly all were in east Asia. By 2010 the list stretched around the world, including Japan, South Africa, Australia, Chile, Brazil, India, Pakistan, the US and Egypt. Imagine how long the list will be in 2020.

China is rapidly emerging as a great financial power. In 2009 and 2010 the China Development Bank and the China Exim Bank – which I would guess the great majority of Observer readers have never even heard of – lent more to the developing world than the World Bank. Just as the Rothschilds funded much of Europe's industrialisation in the 19th century, so these two banks are now doing the same on a far larger canvas, namely the entire developing world, comprising 85% of the world's population. Meanwhile, in late 2008, China began making the renminbi, hitherto a currency that circulated only in China, available for the settlement of trade. The HSBC has predicted that by 2013-15 half of China's trade with the developing world (which constitutes more than half of China's total trade) will be paid for in renminbi. It is the first stage in the process by which the renminbi will replace the dollar as the world's dominant currency.

The centre of gravity of the global economy is remorselessly shifting from the developed to the developing world. China is the main player and the outcome will be the rapidly declining influence of the developed world and the reconstitution of all major global institutions, notably the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, to reflect this.

Pause for a moment and think what it feels like to be in Beijing these days. The place is on fire. It is alive with argument and debate. A country growing at 10% a year is constantly throwing up huge and novel problems that require response and solution. It is a far cry from Britain mired in stagnation, where debate rarely ever breaks new ground and for the most part is backdated. In contrast, China is not only remaking itself with extraordinary speed, but is also remaking the world. Beijing resembles London in 1850 or Washington in 1950, but on an epic scale. It is the most interesting and stimulating city in the world.

I spent much of last autumn as a visiting professor at Tsinghua University in Beijing. My stay was a whirl of talks and discussions. Far from the western image of China being devoid of debate, Beijing is positively throbbing with it. And it is extraordinarily open-minded and open-ended. I was invited to give a lecture at the ministry of foreign affairs to around 100 young diplomats at which I suggested that a foreign policy based on Deng Xiaoping's principles was no longer appropriate: a new approach was required that reflected Chinese growing global interests while also drawing on its history. Far from being taken aback, those present entered into a vigorous discussion. These debates, furthermore, are infused with huge significance. As China becomes a great global power they will shape its future policies and priorities – and thereby the world.

One might think that in such times, and with such glittering prospects, China would be full of hubris, bordering even on arrogance. On the contrary, the opposite is the case. The Chinese are still deeply preoccupied with the colossal problems that confront a still poor and developing country of 1.3 billion people. Inequality has soared, sowing the seeds of growing resentment against the rich; land seizures, as events in Wukan recently demonstrated, provide a continuing threat to social stability; massive corruption is corroding the sense of justice and fairness. While possessed of the kind of inner confidence and experience that comes from being the heirs of a great civilisation, the Chinese have no illusions about where they have got to and the tasks that lie ahead.

In November, the Communist party will hold its 18th congress. It will elect a new leadership for the next 10 years during which time China will undergo profound change. Already, there is a major shift under way in economic priorities from low value-added production and massive exports towards higher-end production and domestic consumption. During the next decade we can expect important political reforms.

In Britain, meanwhile, China will continue to receive scant coverage. But, kicking and screaming, forever looking backwards to the age of the west, we will, nevertheless, be dragged into the age of China. Time waits for no country. Over the next decade, we will increasingly come under China's spell.

It is worth reminding ourselves that last October, when the future of the euro was in grave doubt, European leaders pleaded with China to extend a huge loan. Britain is also broke and needs Chinese money for its infrastructure projects. There will be a growing clamour to learn Mandarin. And, as yet hardly recognised, we will find ourselves coming under the growing influence of Chinese soft power, be it the influence of Chinese parenting or the country's stellar educational performance. China will irresistibly shape our future.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/25/china-rise-ignorance






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And when did China has impressed the world
Replying to: Why do we continue to ignore China's rise? Arrogance -- skipper Archive


.45

03/26/2012, 01:06:09




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Since Deng Xiaoping Chinese leaders were eager to visit the white house and shaking hands with the US presidents to gain world popularity. China's foregin policy and stragetic goal was never recognized by the world! The west just never respect us and our interest!

If China wants the world paid attentions and listen at us seriously, we must do something stunned the world. At least we must 'take out' other

'adversary' to make the world understood if not obeying will met by 'iron and blood'! The "Bharat Raskat" is definately a stragetic adversary against China, it was an obstacle on the rise of China and we must punish them a lesson! Just like the punishment of vietgooks in 1979!






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Ban this piece of sh1t!
Replying to: And when did China has impressed the world -- .45 Archive


AlectoX

03/26/2012, 13:01:10




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This flamer should be banned.
Replying to: And when did China has impressed the world -- .45 Archive


matteroffact

03/26/2012, 02:31:52




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Ban this retard.
Replying to: And when did China has impressed the world -- .45 Archive


mtm

03/26/2012, 01:52:26




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Ceterum censeo, Cipango delenda est

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Ignore? Hardly! They fear and loathe. Yes, they are paranoid.
Replying to: Why do we continue to ignore China's rise? Arrogance -- skipper Archive


matteroffact

03/25/2012, 14:41:49




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China is not really rising:
Replying to: Why do we continue to ignore China's rise? Arrogance -- skipper Archive


-Corsair-

03/25/2012, 12:05:18




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China has too many internal problems to deal with even to think about taking on the world - hell, a united Chinese nation hasn't even existed in the last 100 years! All this "new superpower" crap is mere fingerpointing by US pundits to distract from domestic issues. Chinese people only recently start getting enough to eat, and because of this Americans start raving about a rising threat.

Forty years ago the PRC was a repressive and impoverished dystopia and the US actively courted Mao against the Soviet Union, even supplying weapons to the PLA. Today in an era when official abuses of any sort immediately end up reported on the internet by concerned citizens and Wen Jiabao wants expanded democratic elections, the US screams of China as some monstrous threat of a dire and existential nature.






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Yes it is. The Chinese national trajectory is inexorably and undeniably, upward.
Replying to: China is not really rising: -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

03/25/2012, 15:32:32




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But nowhere near US levels
Replying to: Yes it is. The Chinese national trajectory is inexorably and undeniably, upward. -- AlectoX Archive


-Corsair-

03/25/2012, 22:07:14




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The only way that could happen is if the economy here keeps getting worse, which actually isn't that improbable.





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you are buying into American exceptionalism?
Replying to: But nowhere near US levels -- -Corsair- Archive


master debater

03/26/2012, 00:47:12




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China has millions of poor uneducated 'peasants'. So does US.

when China reaches tipping point, Chinese peasants will be as 'rich' as US peasants.






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No, but Chinese poor are a lot poorer than their US counterparts
Replying to: you are buying into American exceptionalism? -- master debater Archive


-Corsair-

03/26/2012, 16:13:10




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and a lot greater in number. China ain't caught up to the US yet (it's not even a unified nation!) and if you can't see that you must not have eyes. That "tipping point" you speak of probably will not occur in our lifetimes, barring some catastrophe in the US that evens things out. China is just starting to develop and Chinese people are just starting to have a good life, but Americans see this as some kind of rising superpower threat.





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You're confusing "getting there" and "being there". Not nearly the same thing.
Replying to: No, but Chinese poor are a lot poorer than their US counterparts -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

03/27/2012, 09:14:06




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I'm not confusing it, the US media/politicians/public is
Replying to: You're confusing "getting there" and "being there". Not nearly the same thing. -- AlectoX Archive


-Corsair-

03/27/2012, 13:30:35




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They act as if China has already "gotten there", and it's mostly a deliberate pretext to stir up anti-Chinese sentiment. Tt would be better to keep a low profile rather than prematurely crow and gloat as some Chinese seem to be fond of.





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I said China is rising, you said it is not. In fact, it is rising.
Replying to: I'm not confusing it, the US media/politicians/public is -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

03/28/2012, 02:34:29




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This is undeniable.  You don't have to be IQ45 to recognize or state this.  Your response was that per capita China is not caught up to the US.  So?  This is not the point.






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I do not believe that China is "rising" across the board:
Replying to: I said China is rising, you said it is not. In fact, it is rising. -- AlectoX Archive


-Corsair-

03/30/2012, 15:56:03




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In fact in some areas, such as social cohesion, China is regressing. Most of the visible improvements are economic, without which Chinese military and political clout would be nonexistent. These fragile gains could turn out illusory if the US presses its considerable diplomatic, trade, and military advantages against a China that is excessively dependent upon exports. China isn't even united yet and any gloating or celebrating at this premature stage is simply counterproductive. We can't at all be counting our chickens at this point.





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India is "rising" across the board.
Replying to: I do not believe that China is "rising" across the board: -- -Corsair- Archive


superblaser

03/31/2012, 23:48:15




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I'll believe that when their dalits rise above untouchable status
Replying to: India is "rising" across the board. -- superblaser Archive


-Corsair-

04/01/2012, 16:46:32




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Who said anything about across the board? Who said anything about gloating?
Replying to: I do not believe that China is "rising" across the board: -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

03/31/2012, 03:00:33




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Let's not argue semantics:
Replying to: Who said anything about across the board? Who said anything about gloating? -- AlectoX Archive


-Corsair-

03/31/2012, 10:40:53




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I only have two points I'd like to make in this post:

First, China's "rise" is nascent, uneven, and quite shaky. I might talk about China "rising" in five or ten years if things go extremely well.

Second, a lot of Chinese do indeed like to gloat about it as if China has already surpasses the US or something. There is a lot of work that needs to be done at this point and it's premature to cheer right now. Gloating only inflames US hatred of China.






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Re: Let's not argue semantics:
Replying to: Let's not argue semantics: -- -Corsair- Archive


mtm

04/01/2012, 08:38:58




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The most sobering comparison for me is the nominal per capita GDP amongst nations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Even if other countries' GDP remain frozen while Chinese incomes grows at 8%, it would take a decade to overtake Kazakhstan, 2 decades to reach where South Korea is today, 3 decades to surpass America, and 4 decades to reach parita with Norway. Of course this is a gross simplification ignoring many factors but it does illustrate how far China has to go. 





Ceterum censeo, Cipango delenda est

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Per capita GDP is not a good measure of comprehensive national strength.
Replying to: Re: Let's not argue semantics: -- mtm Archive


AlectoX

04/02/2012, 22:19:53




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By the time Chinese per capita GDP reaches the level of the US, China itself will possess a truly massive economy with equally massive geopolitical and military strength as well, almost certainly significantly dwarfing those of the US.






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I wasn't trying to measure comprehensive national strength.
Replying to: Per capita GDP is not a good measure of comprehensive national strength. -- AlectoX Archive


mtm

04/03/2012, 04:08:54




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I was trying to measure the buying power of the average Chinese citizen, and yes I know that currency values, imports/exports etc etc skew the number even further.





Ceterum censeo, Cipango delenda est

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Who's been arguing semantics?
Replying to: Let's not argue semantics: -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

03/31/2012, 14:09:00




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"First, China's "rise" is nascent, uneven, and quite shaky. I might talk about China "rising" in five or ten years if things go extremely well."

"Nascent", "uneven", and "shaky" are perfect examples of what I call semantics.  The wording "rising" is used by most people in a general sense without using areas of imperfection to smear the obvious trend of the national trajectory.  In fact to my mind any such attempt is an act of intellectual dishonesty.  Corruption is rampant, pollution is everywhere, minorities are setting human bonfires,  bla FVCKING bla.  Pretty much every modernized country went through such periods in their development and survived stronger than before, and yet when it comes to China, all of a sudden every molehill is turned into a mountain that threatens to crush the paper-tiger and expose some kind of facade that people can use to pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on seeing what a fake the Chinese 'miracle' really was.  This is just a bunch of crap from subconsciously racist Westerners who cannot believe that a non-white nation could surpass them without using the same political and socioeconomic models they came up with.  Please stop buying into their horsesh1t.  None of these problems are fatal or insurmountable, individually or taken together.

Also, you talking about China "rising" in 5 or 10 years would put you several decades behind history.  The fact is China has been rising since 1978 when economic liberalization unleashed a wave of modernization that has only picked up steam since then.  On economic, scientific, technological, geopolitical, and military terms China has been rising by any common sense definition of the word.






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Well said!
Replying to: Who's been arguing semantics? -- AlectoX Archive


mtm

04/01/2012, 08:09:11




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Ceterum censeo, Cipango delenda est

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I never said the problems were insurmountable
Replying to: Who's been arguing semantics? -- AlectoX Archive


-Corsair-

03/31/2012, 19:32:15




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In fact, I most emphatically said to NMD that they were NOT insurmountable. I'm saying we should not get ahead of ourselves celebrating something that is pretty meager so far, and instead continue working on vital improvements. As for every modern country going through problems, that is true but does anyone really want to go through what, for example, Germany did (WWI, Versailles, Weimar hyperinflation, Nazis, and WWII)? We have to acknoeldge the existence of problems so they can be fixed before they get that bad, and we can't assume no danger exists.





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Acknowledging ongoing problems is not mutually exclusive of recognizing
Replying to: I never said the problems were insurmountable -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

04/02/2012, 11:16:51




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a country's national trajectory, and that has always been the point.  You're trying to use China's problems to say it is not rising, but in fact it is.  You're trying to say that because China is not rising in all areas means it is not rising in general, but in fact it is.  It just is.  This is not actually a matter of debate.






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I'd say the opposite is more true...
Replying to: I do not believe that China is "rising" across the board: -- -Corsair- Archive


montyp165

03/30/2012, 18:58:22




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the CCP is less sclerotic than the US is, and can respond better to issues as they occur, it's only because the US has a lot of existing strength that these elements get overlooked or pushed under the rug. If you made your claim before 2008, I'd have agreed.






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The CCP also suffers from bureaucratically entrenched political baggage
Replying to: I'd say the opposite is more true... -- montyp165 Archive


-Corsair-

03/31/2012, 10:43:02




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China has a lot of problems that are basically politically or (worse) culturally ingrained, and these will need to be worked out in order to construct a more stable and prosperous society. Until then we should not speak of China's "rise". I do not even like to use the word "China" until reunification, because there is no united Chinese state. For the last hundred years China has been divided politically, first by warlords and then by Communist and Nationalist factions which continues to this day.





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I understand the sentiment...
Replying to: The CCP also suffers from bureaucratically entrenched political baggage -- -Corsair- Archive


montyp165

03/31/2012, 13:12:09




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but one thing I do think that may have been overlooked was however brutal the Cultural Revolution was, it in a way helped break many of the culturally entrenched political conceits in Chinese political structures, which enabled a more multilateral look at how to take things forward. This is why I consider the PRC to be less hobbled conceptually than the US, which in turn is growing more politically ossified in its political conceits. Still, China will only really be China again when it is one unified country and system and nothing less.






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I agree completely
Replying to: I understand the sentiment... -- montyp165 Archive


-Corsair-

03/31/2012, 19:32:52




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In fact, the Cultural Revolution may have actually been quite beneficial simply by shocking people into reforming the system. As for reunification, that needs to be done slowly and deliberately, and without any perception that either side is in the slightest way surrendering to the other.





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No disagreement here, but what makes you think we'll never see the tipping point
Replying to: No, but Chinese poor are a lot poorer than their US counterparts -- -Corsair- Archive


Master Debater

03/27/2012, 04:40:49




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Look at what South Korea, Japan, Germany can achieve in 40 years.
As long as there is enough oil, China can achieve the same. Oil is the key or China really needs to fund a $1 Trillion Manhattan Project for fusion energy. With enough energy everyone Chinese person can live like Americans.





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What makes you think there is or will be enough oil?
Replying to: No disagreement here, but what makes you think we'll never see the tipping point -- Master Debater Archive


-Corsair-

03/27/2012, 13:34:06




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Everyone knows the stuff will not last forever, and China is so huge the demands for every single resource are going to be far more than any other country. That's one reason why Chinese are putting more money and effort into alternate energy research. As for Chinese people living like Americans, that may not be desirable if they also become as lazy and entitlement-centered as Americans.





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Not enough oil for 5 more USA's, but there is enough solar and unlimited fusion
Replying to: What makes you think there is or will be enough oil? -- -Corsair- Archive


Master Debater

03/28/2012, 06:47:04




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What separates 1970's North Korea and the 2010's North Korean sh!thole is OIL.  The North Koreans didn't suddenly lose 30 IQ Points.  They lost the free, cheap Siberian oil. 

By the same corollary, what separates 2010 America from 2010 China is also the amount of energy consumed.  Forget the BS about innovation, immigration, democracy, free press and rule of law.  If that were really true the Hindus would have been a superpowah 40 years ago.  That's all secondary.  It's as simple as OIL/Energy consumption.  That's really the only thing separating a 1st world lifestyle from a 4th world sh!thole.

China needs a Manhattan Project for fusion energy.  China needs to put solar panels in every inch of the Gobi.  And China needs to keep suppressing the trouble makers.  Then you will indeed see FIVE Americas in China.






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May I ask why you seem so obsessed with IQ points?
Replying to: Not enough oil for 5 more USA's, but there is enough solar and unlimited fusion -- Master Debater Archive


-Corsair-

03/30/2012, 15:57:01




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I noticed this sort of arrogance appears to be a common problem among the Asian-American crowd. Do you people really think you are smarter?

Also, when did TIers first start to appropriate the term "Taiwanese-American"? Why are there "Taiwanese-Americans" but not "Hong Kong-Americans"? Why don't Chinese-Americans call themselves "Cantonese-Americans"?






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But Cantonese -Americans are a breed of their own
Replying to: May I ask why you seem so obsessed with IQ points? -- -Corsair- Archive


Henry Yeh

04/02/2012, 07:17:23




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My point was that they do not generally call themselves "Cantonese-Americans"
Replying to: But Cantonese -Americans are a breed of their own -- Henry Yeh Archive


-Corsair-

04/02/2012, 09:36:01




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They usually are quick to remind one that they are the true Chinese-Americans, and I will concede that point to them.





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When I say I'm Taiwanese-American, I don't use it as a political term.
Replying to: May I ask why you seem so obsessed with IQ points? -- -Corsair- Archive


Master Debater

03/31/2012, 08:32:41




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I don't know how other Taiwanese use the term, but it's not how I use it.  I don't really follow Taiwanese politics because I could care less.  My understanding it that there are three groups in Taiwan: the Taiwanese who know they are Chinese, the Taiwanese who think they are a separate Taiwanese ethnic group and the truly crazy Taiwanese who think they are Japanese.

I know I'm in the first camp.  My grandfather on my father's side was lieutenant governor of Guangdong province.  My maternal grandfather worked for Chiang Kai-Shek.  I was born in the Armed Forced general hospital in Taipei.  When I say Taiwanese-American, I use it like my home town, like an American would say they are Southern Californians.

And what Chinese person is not interested in IQ ???






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The political crazy seems to show up disproportionately in the US
Replying to: When I say I'm Taiwanese-American, I don't use it as a political term. -- Master Debater Archive


-Corsair-

03/31/2012, 10:34:57




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as I've mentioned here before - did you check out that blog post? And why are there no "Hong Kong Americans" or "Cantonese Americans"? F***ing Asians trying to appropriate everything! As for the IQ thing, that's a mark of arrogance that also shows up more in Asian-Americans than Chinese. I always suspected they tried to compensate for their low social status in the States by deluding themselves into thinking they were smarter than other races. You shouldn't let these attitudes get to you simply because you're living in the US - there's no scientific evidence for it and I can tell you numerous anecdotal experiences I've had that would seem to indicate otherwise.





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Nope, didn't read it. Taiwan crazies and Taiwan politics don't interest me...
Replying to: The political crazy seems to show up disproportionately in the US -- -Corsair- Archive


Master Debater

04/01/2012, 02:26:33




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And even if I did read it, what would it prove??  That there are nutjobs in Taiwan???  I knew that when I was 10 years old and my parents told me there are crazies in Taiwan that would kill us just because both sides of our family are from the mainland.

Where I disagree with you is your assumption that my interest in IQ is somehow due to some low social status in the US.  What do you think we are doing in the US, building railroads and cooking at Chinese restaurants??  Chinese-Americans have done very well in America and no one I know is considered low social status.  There is a super nice guy on my team => 2nd Highest College Entrance Exam Score in his entire province in China.  2nd Highest in his province.   If he is such low social status in the US, there are 2 jobs in Beijing at Chinese banks waiting for him at Wall Street pay any time he wants it.  Beijing at Wall Street numbers.  We are not low social status in the US my friend.

I'm interested in IQ and EQ because they are very important in my field, banking and finance.  And you don't have to tell me super IQ can come from anywhere.  I've worked all over the world.  The smartest guy I have ever met in my entire career in finance was a Grande-Ecole educated SocGen Prop. Trader from Cameroon.  His EQ was so high he could read your mind and Swedish women would just spread their legs for him on command.  His IQ was so high he could learn new computer languages on the fly while reading the complex embedded financial models (it's really much more impressive than it sounds).






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They're not Taiwan crazies:
Replying to: Nope, didn't read it. Taiwan crazies and Taiwan politics don't interest me... -- Master Debater Archive


-Corsair-

04/01/2012, 16:48:17




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They're Asian-American crazies pushing extreme TI agendas, quite common in the US and not that surprising among people who only speak English and have parents that constantly brainwash them with TI propoganda. As for the social status thing, that should be self-evident to anyone living in the United States. Publicly mocking Chinese people is still very much OK here whereas you can't publicly do that to blacks or Mexicans anymore (but they still do under the table). And if IQ was really so important for bankers maybe the economic crisis would not have happened.





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I'd like to add some additional thoughts...
Replying to: Nope, didn't read it. Taiwan crazies and Taiwan politics don't interest me... -- Master Debater Archive


montyp165

04/01/2012, 09:51:14




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although both sides of my family tree have been on Taiwan longer than Ah-bian and his ilk had, just because we didn't automatically lick their stinking boots on political views they tried to portray us as being 'filthy mainlanders'. That's why I really don't hestitate to treat them the same way as I do right-wing Jap imperialists, do not forgive nor forget...






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Here's some typical uneducated drivel from self-proclaimed "Taiwanese-American":
Replying to: May I ask why you seem so obsessed with IQ points? -- -Corsair- Archive


-Corsair-

03/30/2012, 15:58:12




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It's fairly representative of what I hear a lot of these days, although the "Portuguese" claims are really stretching it even for ignorant Asians. I remember back in the old days of CMF Direwolf said he was part Dutch, but claims of foreign ancestry seems to be more fashionable among overseas TIers recently - increasing desperation to dissociate themselves from all things Chinese, perhaps? What do you think? I was surprised they allowed so many of the opposing comments, at least some of which appear to be from fellow Taiwanese in the states. http://www.8asians.com/2012/03/22/the-taiwanese-who-wasnt-discovering-the-origins-of-my-language/





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Forget it. Controllable fusion is not possible.
Replying to: Not enough oil for 5 more USA's, but there is enough solar and unlimited fusion -- Master Debater Archive


Predator

03/30/2012, 07:08:47




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No.Chinese exceptionalism to keep a lo profile.(U're chicano?)
Replying to: you are buying into American exceptionalism? -- master debater Archive


ChairmanMaoColmX

03/26/2012, 01:15:18




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I don't think he is chicano.
Replying to: No.Chinese exceptionalism to keep a lo profile.(U're chicano?) -- ChairmanMaoColmX Archive


BBC

03/26/2012, 02:11:08




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He has been reasonable in his posts.






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I think he is but he has graduated.He didn't deny it
Replying to: I don't think he is chicano. -- BBC Archive


ChairmanMaoColmX

03/27/2012, 16:30:48




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I'm not 'Chicano'. LOL. I'm Taiwanese-American. Both sides are from the mainland
Replying to: I think he is but he has graduated.He didn't deny it -- ChairmanMaoColmX Archive


Master Debater

03/28/2012, 06:56:44




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Yes, I'm a huge Jeremy Lin #17 fan.  Linsanity Baby!!






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What?
Replying to: But nowhere near US levels -- -Corsair- Archive


AlectoX

03/25/2012, 22:12:27




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I certainly disagree.China is a poor 3rd world country&will only be a mid-income
Replying to: Why do we continue to ignore China's rise? Arrogance -- skipper Archive


ChairmanMaoColmX

03/25/2012, 08:16:48




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country by 2050 according to Teng Xiao Ping the Great






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